Living as a Mod in the 21st Century

Monday, February 25, 2013

What is the ultimate Mod scooter? Vespa vs Lambretta


I'm not necessarily the type to start fiery debates but I feel that I'm ready to tackle this one and settle it once and for all.  That uncontrollable urge to want to debate has suddenly taken me over. I call it the DJ Warren Peace Effect. Listen to the We Are The Mods radio show and you might be afflicted too. Oh, oh... Will I start writing blog posts a scotch snifter in hand? By the end of this article, you'll get a definite and clear answer from me. Parka Avenue will declare a winner! Who said I can't take on important issues?

First, most Mods fall into two camps: Vespa or Lambretta. Just like the age old Coca-Cola vs Pepsi rivalry, the two Italian scooter brands have been trying to outshine each other since the start. (I'm a Coke fan by the way) Whether you like the feminine curves of the seductive Vespa or the streamline, bullet shaped modern design of Innocenti's Lambretta, most have a preference. If you are part of the few that would rather stroll along the seaside on a bank holiday on a German Heinkel Tourist or a Zundapp Bella, then more power to you but you're certainly in the minority. 


And  if you have a Union Jack tattooed on your heart and are British to the core, you might want to seek out a UK made scooter. Show me a photo of a 60s Mod on one of these and you'll  see a bunch of his mates laughing in the background.


Personally, I own both a Vespa and a Lambretta. They are just like my children. It's hard to pick one over the other but let's see if a victor will emerge.

My 1959 Vespa VNB on the right
 
The Vespa 

The look: 

Can someone remind me again what the Ace Face was riding in Quadrophenia? Yes, that's right, a Vespa. The Vespa has curves and is sexy. The classic design has endured the test of time and is still relevant today. They preceded Lambretta and you just need to compare the first model of each make to see that Vespa is the clear winner. There's nothing cool about riding a Lambretta D Model. I also give Piaggio an extra point for being the first to have the headlight mounted on the handlebars. For a Mod, that's crucial because it frees up space to add a rack or a badge bar. Where else are you going to put all those mirrors and lights?


The performance: 

The Vespa is a workhorse. With its direct drive engine, it has a well-deserved reputation for being reliable. So when you're dressed to the nines in your favourite mohair suit, the last thing you need is a scooter breakdown and having to get your hands dirty. We leave that to the Rockers.


The Lambretta

The look:

The Lambretta screams "modernism". Just look at it! What a thing of beauty. The front fender of the series 3 model looks like the head of a missile. The legshield is sleek and narrower than the same year model of the Vespa. But what does it for me, are the side panels, especially the arrow shape chrome flashes of the SX200. Could it possibly be more Mod?





In the looks department, my choice is definitive. Lambretta takes the edge.


The performance:

The Lambretta won many speed records and was generally always ahead of his rival when it came to engine size. The tubular frame and centred engine makes it more stable to ride than the Vespa with the motor mounted on the right hand side. Innocenti also came up with some technical advancements that might tip the scales in their favor, mainly the disc brake found on the TV and SX models.


On the negative side,  the engine is often temperamental and notoriously prone to breakdowns. So if I had to chose between reliability and speed, I go for the Wasp. Mods are more preoccupied with cruising down the boulevard in sharp clothes than going from point A to point B in record time.

Before we declare a champion, we must determine which two models should square off. To base my decision, I picked the two scooters that were offered at the pinnacle of Mod popularity in the mid sixties. The were widely considered the two most desirable scooter models of their time and many Mods were ready to make pacts with the devil to put their hands on one. Sure, the Lambretta SX200 or the Vespa SS180 would make for great candidates but they came at the tail end of the 60s Mod craze.

The ultimate Mod scooter face-off:

In the red corner, weighing in at 242 lb, hailing from the Piaggio plant in Pontedera, Italy,  the scooter that rides like a butterfly but stings like a wasp, please welcome the Vespa GS160 Mark 1!

Posing on my friend Jean-François Bourque's immaculate 1962 Vespa GS Mark 1

The top of the line Gran Sport 160 was produced between 1962 and 1964 and it is considered to be one of the best scooters Piaggio ever produced. The GS160 represented an evolution on many levels when compared to earlier models. The engine, suspension, electrical components, frame and styling were all reworked. In 1963, the model revered by many Mods would cost you a little over £196. For its beautiful lines and classic style,  it's a serions contender to claim the title.

In the blue corner, weighing in at 242 lb, hailing from the Innocenti plant in Milan, Italy, please welcome the Italian Stalion, the Lambretta TV175 Series 3!

Unrestored 1965 Lambretta TV175 Series 3  that recently sold on eBay

The Turismo Veloce ranks as one of the best scooters ever produced, period. It was also the first two-wheel vehicule to ever use a mechanical disc brake. When compared to the 160cc Vespa, it doesn't take Einstein to figure out that it can't outrun a 175. (And believe me, I'm no mechanical genius) It can reach a top speed of 65mph and that's plenty of veloce for me. It does have slightly less power at 8.75 hp at 5300 rpm when compared to the GS at 8.9 hp.

One thing makes me all goo-goo ga-ga for this two-stroke marvel: the side panels. The early TV175 Series 3 models had the same flat cowls as the LI's. The later TV's had the coved side panels with the famous "knuckle" flashes that give them a distinctive look. Another noticable feature that I like when compared to its nemesis, is the extended floorboard. When you are riding to your local Soul club, you want your lovely lady to have somewhere to rest her feet. You don't want them dangling on each side like on a Vespa!

This my 1965 TV175 in the midst of a complete restoration at Scootart, Montreal's premium scooter shop. It should be ready to hit the pavement in a few weeks. More on the ground up restorations in an upcoming post.

And the winner is...

The Lambretta TV175 series 3!

"Pat, you're biased. You chose a scooter you own as the winner." I can all hear you saying. Yes and your point being? That is precisely why I always wanted that exact model. It's the ultimate Mod scooter!

39 comments:

  1. I agree... The Ser 3 TV 175 was one of the best scooters Innocenti ever made.

    They got it right with this one.

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    1. Wholeheartedly agree. Just restoring a '64 TV175 like yours. They are the dogz as far as I' concerned. Why folks want to tamper or customise perfection I don't understand.

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    2. Haha. Great article. I was only discussing my Vespa SS180 this morning. I was racing Velocettes and had raced a little Kreidler but my road bike was a BSA 500 Goldie cafe racer when I "turned mod" under the influence of a pretty girl 😍 and Northern Soul. I road tested everything and chose the SS because it banked over and handled/ cornered quicker than the others and that was my sole criteria.
      I think I gave the dealer my bike and £30 for a shiny new SS white and red which I added 20p kilos of chrome to before venturing to the "Pop In Cafe" to show it off only to have 20 rockers turn up and having to run out of the kitchen and over the back car park. Those were the days!

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    3. Yep pretty cool but speaking as one of the "hell I was there" gang I traded a really nice C15T for my first scooter (in 1966) which was a'64 Vespa 150 Sportique (with union jack bubbles and go slower chrome).Primarily the base reason was sex, all the prettiest girls were mods and the wore mini dresses, a BIG plus! The SS180 was the one to have if you could afford it on pittance apprentice wages, the girls loved to be seen on the Vespas. I just got my hands on a 1967 Granturismo 125 which is a very similar looking beast. SS's are through the roof. Going to restore it stock white with clean lines and minimum chrome. Such a pretty thing it would be a shame to cover it up with too much.
      One request from an old timer who is actually from the north of England,.. please stop referring to it as 'Northern' Soul. It's Soul music and it was and is universal, full stop. Only the people who came after the action had tailed off refer to it as being Northern because after clubs like the Wheel and the Mojo closed down around '68 people who still dug that scene,(mainly in the North)kept it going. We all moved on because Mod 'ism' was a fashion, same as rock and roll and Beats(nicks) and fashions change as do tastes. Some became hippies, some became skinheads, others moved into club and disco scenes and became medallion men and knobheads :) I sort of floated around in all three depending where the most fun was to be had. Most Rockers turned into Greasers and like Heavy Metal...as do I.. They pinched that from the progressive rock scene which was born of the Hippie movement. It goes on ad infinitum.... thankfully :)

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  2. "Fiery debate"? Here's another one, "We are the Mods" fb-page is a piece of crap.

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  3. Get in! Was touch and go for a moment. Mine's an SX150 - not far off a TV175 and the letters SX always look better to me than TV!

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    1. yeah thats right!! the sx 200 was for me the ultimate scooter!! i got once 75 mph out of mine on the M5, bog standard an all!!

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    2. no you didn't your speedo might have said it but you didn't do it. Lambretta all the way

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  4. Please don't forget that the Lambretta TV200, known as the GT, was specifically designed and built for the UK market, arguably for the Mods at that time and the only scooter aimed only at the Mods, so this model must be the ultimate Mod scooter. You can't argue with that!

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    1. Very good point David. The reason why I didn't chose the TV200 is because they are so rare. Only 14,982 units were made for and exported to markets outside of Italy. But desirable to Mods they certainly were! (and are!) That's why I stayed in the TV family.

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    2. As a south London mod in the `60s, I and most of my mates aspired to owning a TV200 for the reason stated by Dave Dry, it was aimed at the British market on the insistence (and consistent pestering) of importer Peter Agge; so we viewed it as `our` scoot. We preferred the TVs (and Lamby`s in general) sleeker look because it`s lines resembled the, then current, look of Bertone designed sports cars coming out of Italy as apposed to the "bubble`y" look of the Vespa`s!.
      Out of our group of 8 mods back then only 2 had Vespa`s and the only thing we envied about the Vespa`s was their deeper exhaust tone when fitted with certain sports silencers.
      I bought my TV200 (GT) 2 months after my 16th birthday in `66 when I part ex`d my old Li 150 for it. I still own that same scoot and have just finished a full restoration on it after last using it in `77, and am enjoying it every bit as much as I did in my misspent youth of the `60s...great times.
      The ultimate scoot for me has to be the Sr3 TV Lamby, it did it for me back then, and still does today... 80)

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    3. Great story Brian! Hard to argue with your logic.

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  5. It is great, Patrick that you have both makes. I think any claims at bias can be shot down by just this. The Lambretta looks great and I wouldn't say no to owning one...but. Design wise, aesthetically and intrinsically, I have to side with the wasp/ vespa. When I saw a documentry about post-war Italian scooters, I was honestly shocked at the Lambretta being made from a series of metal tubes. I had always thought it was a complete frame. The Vespa on the other hand is of complete/pressed construction. I think that is why it is more reliable and is still in production. I have heard many arguments against this but for me they still don't hold water. So from a design standpoint it has to be the Vespa. The British or other variants are for me a cruel joke. Like an Italian scooter only ugly and clumsy. Completely missing the point anyone? Just my two Aussie cents. Take care Ozy Pete.

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    1. The history of the two companies before making scooters was instrumental in the designs.. Innocenti had pipe bending tools and experience where Piaggio had the same for sheetmetal pressing.

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    2. also, Piaggio had aircraft design experience (which beats any pipe design business as far as engineering is concerned)

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  6. Patrick in Montreal-

    I wholeheartedly agree. My current project:

    http://1965tv175.wordpress.com

    -Patrick in Minneapolis

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    1. Very nice! You're a lot more handy than I am! I like the choice of colours too. Good luck with the project!

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  7. Lambretta is more elegant, sound staggering, and the engine is central so you have a well balanced scooter. Vespa is a more user friendly machine, parts are simpler to fix, and they are more steadfast.
    ----------------
    moped

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  8. Great article and one with a conclusion with which I wholly concur (although I too would have to declare a bias on the basis that a TV3 nestles amongst the other models in my stable) . For some time now I have been toying with joining he blog community with this very subject my intended first attempt.
    I guess I'll still have a tilt at the subject on the basis (like all those maths calculations at school where the teacher insisted) you have to show your workings to demonstrate how you reach your result!

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  9. I have just bought a P125X 1979 model hoping to tidy her up and take her to usa from uk in next couple of months, Or should I be looking for a different model ?

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    1. The Vespa PX series are some of the most reliable scooters around. They really stood the test of time and are a good choice all around. A 125 might be perfect for city riding but you might eventually want a bigger size engine to hit those long US roads.

      Good luck!

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  10. I have owned Many Lambrettas, several Ld 150 LI 150, a TV 200 but the one I loved the most My SX 200 1966 it was a streamline dream.
    Lots of my mates had Lambrettas and some had Vespa's SS AND GS. We all enjoyed both and the argument never came up, we were just happy to have the freedom that they gave us at 17 brilliant.
    I started when I was 14 years old with an old LD bought of an old guy. In total I had about 10 and I wish I still had everyone . Love your page by the way.

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  11. Close call! But I always go for the Vespa. VNB, GS, SS oder Rally/Sprint. It was love at the first crash when a test drive thirty years ago ended with me and my scooter in a couple of trash cans. My old lady (a Sprint from 1972) has just been restored one year ago, and she is more beautiful than ever. When I drive around town, I'm always the happiest girl in the world with a smile from one ear to another. Greetings from Germany, Claudia

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  12. First scooter I had was a 1954 vespa. I was 15 and still at school. I was born in 54 so you can tell my age!. days away from getting my new scoot / rebuilt Lambretta and am hangin!

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  13. Vespa GS 160 "Paradiso per due!"

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  14. Got the TV 175 (MAY19) and love it. Added Mirrors etc LOVE it. My wife that refuses riding a Bike of any sort loves getting out on it.

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  15. Great article. I have a '64 150 Special. Wouldn't you agree that the only real differences between a Special, an SX150, and TV175/200 are so minimal, that only a real Lammy man would be able to tell? i.e. the presence of a disk brake, the fiberglass mudguard on the TV200 (I think), and then just the badges? After that it'd be different gearing etc which you'd have to really be familiar with to distinguish the different ratios from each other.
    They all could be dressed up as any of the others (providing they have age-related number plates in some cases I guess?). Stick SX200 panels on any of the above and make it look like an SX200 if you wish? Anyway, mines an Li150 Special, and so that's what it says on the leggies. Happy scootering!

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    1. Good point. I would tend to agree. The difference in engine power between a 150 and a 200 is noticeable though. Aside from that, you're right, an untrained eye would be hard pressed to see the subtleties between the different models.

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  16. I'd have to lean towards the region in this regard, and I clearly favor Tuscany over Lombardy - Pontedera over Milano.

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  17. I currently own 5 scooters and a nice stable full they are too (even though I say so myself) TV175, SX200, VBA and GS (I also own an everydayer GTS300)
    In my opinion the GS160 is the best by quite a distance over the others, the styling is gorgeous, the engine is sweet (never let me down and i've owned it since 1981 to me it is the epitome of Mod scooters, sure the out and out performance of the SX & TV is better, but with that comes the unreliability (many an hour spent on the side of the roads re-building them) and they do look superb especially the SX, but for me I'm always drawn back to the GS as it does everything so well and is the real head turner in the stable, love the blog by the way.
    Regards
    Rob from England

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    1. That is a solid argument Rob! And thanks for the compliment.

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  18. The lambretta gp200 (Italian) with a ts1 engine (built with high load components) is THE best scooter, nothing else gets close! As for Vespas, it's the T5 mark 1! I've had many scooters, but these are the 2 that I own now!

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  19. My dad bought a LD 125 in the early fifties. I replied with a Douglas rod 125 which had a less vibration engine but not as smooth ride. I saved up for a Vespa GS 150 , the dream come true. But the point about this machine was its engine note nothing has ever come near it!

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  20. i was a mod in the 80s.... revival mod is totally different from mod today or in the 60s. My first scooter was a vespa 50 special, then a PK100, then a PX. I had no desire to ride an original 60s vespa nor any desire to listen soley to 60s soul/mod... the scene, secret affair, the prisoners and the rage ( to name a few ) were just as important as spencer davis, the high numbers, the pretty things or the small faces. A few years later I bought a gs160 s2, gs150 series 5 then an LI series 2 ( which was soooo unreliable that i sold it soon ). I suppose my point is that the ` ultimate ` mod scooter depends on one`s experience of being a mod.... for me a nicely decorated , ride it every day, PX ( which i have now ), is fine.

    mike mckenna, london 80s mod, now living in osaka, japan

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  21. In the Eighties I had a TV 200, I loved the scooter, but it could be a little unreliable, and because I am not mechanically minded, it proved too much for me to maintain, I bought an Indian GP200 new and had several years of trouble free motoring!!! On a sad note the person I sold my TV to,stripped the machine and turned it into a chopper, a sad demise to a classic machine!!!!!!

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  22. I HAD A TV200 IN THE EARLY 70'S...LOVED IT....IF ANYONE HAS KGU 82D AND WANTS TO SELL ????

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  23. I had a 1963 GT200 in 1966 and convinced myself I wanted a new SS180 in 1967. The Vespa was smoother but a little slower. Part of regular maintenance on the GT was tightening the 6mm nuts on the exhaust flange. Fast forward 50 years and I watched as someone started their Lambretta - the vibration was just as I remembered! I wonder what happened to 946TRO and YUR51F?

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